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Wings Over Scotland

And finally… #21

Posted on February 19, 2013 by

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(From here, via alert reader Paul Martin.)

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60 to “And finally… #21”

  1. The best laid schemes fall flat with Labour.


  2. AnneDon says:

    What is depressing is the reference to the increased Labour vote in 2010. Didn’t any of these idiots realise Scotland was voting to protect itself from the likely Tory victory? Every seat in Scotland returned the same Party as it had in 2005, to keep the Tories out.

    For the first time in my life, I wasn’t living in a safe Labour seat in 2010. In a four-way marginal, I wasn’t taking any chances, so I voted Labour as well!

    These folk really do believe their own propaganda, don’t they?     


  3. Alex McI says:

    Stroll on , the bold Duncan has been at the glue again. You really can’t imagine what’s going on in his nut, grade one space cadet.


  4. Marad says:

    Duncs tweet seems to have been posted in March last year


  5. Doug says:

    In his defence (?) it was an old tweet re-emerging. Despite that, when has Lamont EVER bested Salmond or espoused socal justice?


  6. Malcolm says:

    Labour = bloody imperialism = lifetime boycott from myself. Perfectly simple.


  7. LisaR says:

    He is like a dog with a bone though,Duncan,Ian Smart and Kenny Farquharson will be beating the lone Labour drum as rest of Scotland finally sees what Labour have become,no friend to Scotland or Scots.


  8. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Duncs tweet seems to have been posted in March last year”



  9. Ron says:

    not the comment from 2010, his tweet you said was from today – it was from March 2012. Not sure why it showed up, seemingly it appeared in peoples timelines today. Twitter glitch probably.
    Doesnt mean his comment was any less wrong.


  10. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Someone explain the joke to Ron, readers. He’s new.


  11. Cuphook says:

    October 2010 I knew that the SNP were going to win. I thought that it was rather obvious looking at trends etc but people looked at the polls and called me deluded. When the SNP did win a friend asked me how much I’d made at the bookies – I always forget to bet. Anyway, with a bit of work we’re going to get a yes vote – that is my analysis. 


  12. mogabee says:

     Good old Twitter…very obliging. There must be a wheen of public interest gaffs from there!


  13. ianbrotherhood says:

    Is Duncan Hothersall a real person, an anagram, or what?


  14. Paul Martin says:

    Heehee ;-0 To think Mr Hothersall referred to me as “a moron” only a couple of weeks back. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
    Not quite sure what that makes Duncan in the brainbox department, given his acutely keen political forecasting skills in the Scottish region (as he’s referred to it in the past…)


  15. Dcanmore says:

    Labour in Scotland has quite a few fantasists don’t they? I mean more and more of them are leaving reality behind and are now living in some parallel universe where the great perpetual war is just about to be won ala Orwell’s 1984, or Comical Ali’s (Saddam’s one) rantings about victory is imminent when the American tanks are rolling past his window. Didn’t Hothersall just recently say that the SNP are a busted flush? I mean one of these days he will be right, around 2026 in an independent Scotland.


  16. Doug says:

    “I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN” = error noted but not ‘admitted’. Running joke :-)


  17. Appleby says:

    I wonder sometimes – does Duncan really believe this incredible nonsense or is it deliberately and cynically woven to win favour for his chosen team?
    I’ve seen similar bone-headed and blind defence and propaganda spouting in favour of a football team, belief system, etc. To what degree each case involves doublethink or a deep down disbelief of their own party line is hard to tell.


  18. Cuphook says:

    It is an anagram of – ouch and enthralls.


  19. Morag says:

    I still vividly remember interacting with Grahamski on the Scotsman threads before the Glasgow East by-election.  He was cock-a-hoop about how strong the Labour vote was, and how certain Curran was to take the seat.
    He was the same way before the 2011 Holyrood election as far as I remember.  Absolute certainty that the SNP was a busted flush and Labour was returning to its rightful kingdom.


  20. The Man in the Jar says:

    Seriously deluded.


  21. K Mackay says:

    Hi Ron, welcome :)   Rev. Stu says “I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN.” When someone points something out that’s wrong and he corrects it in the article. I think you get Independence points each time he says it to you 😛
    Either that or I’ve got completely the wrong end of the stick, wouldn’t be the first time…


  22. M4rkyboy says:

    Did you catch this Rev?
    edit* just scrolled down and saw your comment.
    This message will self destruct in 5.4.3…


  23. McHaggis says:

    Ah yes, its such a shame I didn’t keep my very long list of The Great See’r of Falkirk’s predictions on the Scotsman forums before the 2011 elections.
    They were hysterical in both how wrong they were and in how deluded Grahamski was (and still is).


  24. muttley79 says:

    Good old Duncan Hothersall.  Together with Ian Smart, Grahamski, Terry Kelly, ‘Braveheart’, they really are a cutting edge political crew of excellence.  No matter how dire, mendacious, right-wing their party becomes, they can always be relied upon to support the political line of their masters.  With their acumen and talent it is no wonder Scottish Labour are seemingly intent on political oblivion…


  25. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Cuphook –
    19 February, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    ‘It is an anagram of – ouch and enthralls.’
    I should’ve guessed as much – painful, but strangely fascinating.
    It just goes to show you should never judge  a book by the cover – who would’ve thought that such an attractive young man, clearly bristling with intellectual curiosity, was capable of pennign such cobblers? 
    We live and learn right enough…


  26. Tom Hogg says:

    Don’t think it’s fair or appropriate to pick on individual activists, regardless of how misplaced or misguided they may be. Just saying….


  27. I gave up R.Scotland as a new resolution bar weekend 2-3hrs and have been listening to R4 who have been hifghlighting Eric blair and 1984 etc.    The similarities of Labour the BBC and Big Brother are quite mind bogling.


  28. Paul Martin says:

    At one time The Scotsman forum consisted of little else than Grahamski’s political vomit being thrown back in his face by gleeful nats. The run up to the 2011 election was forecast by him as being Salmond’s imminent demise and the election of “First Minister Ian Gray”. You could always depend on Grahamski *never ever* meeting *anyone anywhere*, on the doorstep or on the streets, who would be voting SNP. The sweetest of all was Grahamski reporting great election support out there for SLAB, “even in areas where Labour normally do poorly” … topped off by a post about 10 minutes after the polls had closed, when Grahamski had heard on the SLAB grapevine that “it seems Kenny MacAskill is sweating in Edinburgh East”.
    Aye right, utter muppets !


  29. Colin Dunn says:

    For Dunc and his party-faithful chums (of whichever party), it’s just a game. Support your team, whatever, and don’t spare a thought for the voters because they just don’t matter.


  30. Cuphook says:

    It’s worth reading this for the opinion of Olivia Begg. It seems that there’s someone in the No campaign beginning to realise the truth of the situation.


  31. M4rkyboy says:

    But how do we convert them Mutley?
    We need to look at a way to tailor a manifesto that is so pertinent to their goals and expectations that they would be voting for it with hands trembling from excitement.
    I think that the polls are suggesting that the independence bedrock is solid enough to resist any sort of shock-around 33% of independence supporters are voting Yes even if you put a gun to their head-they aren’t going anywhere.This means that there are issues that are open for sacrifice at some later stage.
    The question is what issues is it that these people are reluctant about?How do we contort to accomodate them and how many times can we do it across how wide a spectrum?


  32. Stevie says:

    Actually, replace SNP with Labour and Salmond with Gray (or Lamont — doesn’t matter) then DH is absolutely spot on and right on the money — what clairvoyance this fellow has… well give or take mixing up some names, but still, remarkable insight.


  33. M4rkyboy says:

    For illustration purpose i will suggest a couple silly ones.
    In an independent Scotland we will bring back fox-hunting-that might snag a few Tory countryside types.
    In an independent Scotland we will legalise Cannabis-is that going to hurt or help the Yes vote?
    In terms of the Labour folks,what is it they want?


  34. Morag says:

    You know, I’d be diffident about being that dogmatic even in conversation with like-minded friends.  I’d almost certainly preface it with “I think” or “I hope” or something like that.

    As for committing a hubristic prediction like that to the internet, in all its permanence – no, really, too stupid.

    I’m not sure why they do it.  Is it to frighten and demoralise their opponents?  Or is it just an attempt to convince themselves?  Surely they know it’s going to come back and bite them on the bum, in the end?

    Now, when I read it, I can put it in context and see it for the bluster it is.  It even heartens me to speak my own thoughts, in my own way, declaring that despite the current polls I genuinely think we’ll get a Yes victory next year.  I hope we will, I think we will, and I feel sufficient confidence at least to talk about how that future might be.

    And if that demoralises anyone, so much the better.


  35. James Morton says:

    Mr Hothersall and co live in a strange alternate reality that I now like to call (many thanks to John stewart for this one) Bullshit mountain. The swivel eyed logic that rules the day there is quite something to see. For only in Bullshit mountain would someone believe that J Lamont was capable of handing anyone their own arse. This is a place that believes that social justice is taking away bus passes from pensioners, because some folk don’t live long enough to be pensioners. It’s a party that believes there is a crisis of funding in welfare, yet can’t explain why there is in fact an underspend. They are appalled by the idea of a bedroom tax, but think the answer is to build small overcrowded houses. They look uneasy when someone brings up ATOS but attack the idea of free prescriptions. They pledged to bring tuition fees in line with the rest of the UK but have now decided that not doing that was their cunning plan all along. They accuse the SNP of every crime imaginable but offer no proof. They side with the tories but accuse the SNP of doing it as well. They let a person piss away a large some of money meant for the regeneration of a depressed town, and spoke of food banks as being here to stay.
    They do this because the their problem solving mechanisms can capacity for self reflection and criticism are fundamentally broken. They have all the MSM on their side and yet could not win in 2011. they still think salmond will call off the referendum, because they still think they played a blinder getting one question.
    They are a strange and glibly stupid on Bullshit mountain. They have a smugness that irritates because it is underserved. Because they still don’t seem to have cottoned on to the fact that they lost in 2011 because they were full of shit.


  36. kininvie says:

    Here’s my contrary opinion, as usual.  I don’t see the point of wasting time and energy on picking out the past follies of individuals and holding them up to ridicule. Is this what the Yes campaign is really about? If we start to treat this as an election campaign, we do ourselves no favours. It’s much more than that. If we revert to smear and ridicule, we are being sucked into the same rhetorical slough as our opponents – and will merely put off those whom we might convert. I suggest that we look again at Wings’ motto ‘soaring above Scottish politics’ – and stick to it.


  37. Richard Lucas says:

    I consider Dunc H to be a national treasure.  His adherence to the party line despite all evidence to the contrary is remarkable.  Not an original thought has ever crossed his mind.  He is the Party, the Party is him.  He loves Big Sister


  38. clochoderic says:

    OT – But I think this story is right up your street, Stu
      It has Alex Salmond, Leveson, The BBC, The Herald and The Guardian all rolled into one short confection of bullshit and baloney.


  39. Adrian B says:

    Actually this one is rather interesting also:
    What’s to stop regional publishers walking away from press regulation?


  40. ianbrotherhood says:

    @James Morton, 11.23 –
    Hear hear hear hear hear.
    @Kininvie, 11.24 –
    If people don’t want to be subjected to ridicule and baiting then they shouldn’t ask for it, or at any rate, invite it so blatantly. As my late Uncle Hamish might well have said of DH – ‘he’s got his arse oot the windae wi’ a hat oan it.’
    In any case, if DH, or Grahamski, or any other of these bottons would care to direct us to places where we may subject ourselves to similar scrutiny and/or ridicule, I happily invite him to issue directions…where DO these people gather?


  41. douglas clark says:

    These people are not just activists. They are the future elect of the Labour Party in Scotland.


  42. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Is this what the Yes campaign is really about?”

    No, it’s what a light-hearted end-of-the-day “And Finally…” strand is about.


  43. David McCann says:

    I kept this little gem from the Scotsman letter pages 2006. The Dunc went to the same school as MacKay!
    It is perhaps not surprising that the SNP leader, Alex Salmond, has chosen to return to Scottish politics via the list method. Facing certain defeat and first vote rejection in Gordon, he will be “elected” anyway. Surely, even he must appreciate the ridicule this brings on his party and our country. A system which allows such affronts to democracy must be changed before any more damage is done to Scotland’s image.

    New Cut Rigg


  44. Cuphook says:

    It really does amaze me how party apparatchiks can change their minds when their party wants them to. In 2008 Grahamski signed the following petition:
    “We believe that Labour can win back the support of our people by adopting a new 2008 May Manifesto, which should include:

    – Nailing the 10p tax mistake by the introduction of a fair tax system removing the low paid from taxation and ensuring the wealthiest and corporations pay their fair share

    – An increase in the basic state pension, immediately restoring the link with earnings, lifting people off means tested benefits and providing free care for the elderly

    – An immediate start on a large scale council house building programme and assistance for those facing repossession

    – Immediate end to programme of local Post Office closures and liberalisation of postal services

    – An end to the privatisation of our public services

    – A new pay deal for public sector workers to protect their living standards and tackle low pay

    – Abolishing tuition fees and restoring maintenance grants for all students

    – Scrapping ID cards and abandoning 42 days detention

    – Introduction of a trade union freedom bill and measures to protect temporary and agency workers

    – Rejecting the proposals to renew Trident”


  45. mark piggott says:

    There are 3 days until the Illuminate the Debate rally in Glasgow folks and I’d just like to put in a timely reminder 😉
    The webpage for the rally is, 

    and facebook

    can be used as a hub.

      A good turnout could help to bring this matter to the public’s attention a wee bit more. A team of us have been out leafleting in Glasgow for the last few days, and the response has been great. A lot of positive vibes, a fair bit of awareness, and a lot of questions being asked out there.

    Let’s build on it!


  46. Jiggsbro says:

    You might want to edit the comma off the end of your link, in case the less eagle-eyed think the sites down.


  47. CameronB says:

    Wow, is he real? I don’t know why swine springs to mind? Perhaps it is the fine display of bristle or perhaps it was a book I read about farming. Is it really suitable though, to engage in public acts of animal cruelty?


  48. Tattie-boggle says:

    O/T but is this new thinkers look. Ruthie done this a few weeks ago but cant find the pic.
    But we have this.

    And this.


  49. Tattie-boggle says:


  50. CameronB says:

    “An increase in the basic state pension, immediately restoring the with earnings..”
    Happy with the mean average wage ? What about a return to median average, or could we be a little more ambitious?


  51. CameronB says:

    Edit: link with earnings..


  52. Daisy says:

    I recall in the Hootsman in 2006 – comments were often soaked in Brit Nat pus. SM253 was possibly the worst for it, he appears to have calmed down these days but I see he still pops uprandomly, including a poor deluded blog.


  53. Macart says:

    I get the distinct feeling that to online party activists, this is all some power game. Who’s in, who’s out, score a point here and there. Oh what a jolly they’re having…
    Its so tribal, trivial, selfish and ****ing childish its almost beyond belief.  Personality, party, petty minded rosette wearers do not enter into it. This is about ‘people’, real, live people in a bad and worsening situation, who are trying to get out from under the causes of that situation and create something of a better future for themselves and their children. Blind loyalty to party politics and broken government means you are not part of the solution, but part of the problem. So if it is broke, that’s when you fix it.
    We can’t fix Westminster government. Worse, it doesn’t want to be fixed. What we can do is create an accountable and responsive  governance of our own. The Westminster system created a country which ranks in the top ten for disparity between rich and poor in the west. Their system means one in five kids in Scotland is born into poverty. Their system resulted in expenses scandals, corruption at the highest levels, illegal wars, WMDs having a fifty year home on the Clyde, the abandonment and demonisation of the poor and infirm, the introduction of the soul crushing PFI schemes and so many, many more immoral disasters.
    Better together?????????? In what parallel universe? There isn’t an argument the no campaign or any of its lackeys could put before me would change my mind in the slightest. Scotland would be a scary, doom laden place outside of the union????? Its a scary fekkin’ doom laden place attached to it.
    So to unionist party hacks and activists, who think this referendum is about Alex Salmond and the SNP take note. If you can’t engage in fixing the real problems facing our society or this union, just get out of the damn way and let us get on with it.


  54. Ron says:

    @Rev “Someone explain the joke to Ron, readers. He’s new.”
    Ah yes, most amusing. My sides may have split. Shame you hadn’t changed a thing when I read the post.
    And “new”, my arse.
    Carry on.


  55. Luigi says:

    If this poor guy was so bitter in 2010, what condition is he in now? Does he have any hair left?


  56. Barontorc says:

    Ah Daisy! forgotten times indeed!! Dear old SM253 was a real trooper, but seemed to work office hours only and had bank holidays off. Wonder who was paying his wages while he dallied unremittingly on the Hootsmon site with striking fervour and alarming quick response time?
    Tugged his beard a couple of times and had him imploding over the missing register from the Glenrothes voting fraud. But fair do’s it was in nano-speed response time!
    SM253, Grahamski, Excell, plus a few other nonentities selectively expunged from what memory cells I’ve got left, really worked terrrrribly hard for the cause, poor dears!  
    Daisy says:

    I recall in the Hootsman in 2006 – comments were often soaked in Brit Nat pus. SM253 was possibly the worst for it


  57. AnneDon says:

    @Macart – that post of yours should beturned into a poster and put thru’ everyone’s letter box when we leaflet!

    Rev Stu – When you change the website, can you put ‘recommend’ button on posts? 


  58. Macart says:

    @ AnneDon
    Appreciated Anne.


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