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Wings Over Scotland


And finally… #7

Posted on January 30, 2013 by

This front page from the Sunday Herald is almost two years old, but seems apt today.

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33 to “And finally… #7”

  1. MajorBloodnok says:

    Ironic, considering we’re witnessing the sad twilight years of the Herald.

      

  2. Macart says:

    This is O/T and you can throw gravy at me later.

    Check this out from the Guardian’s resident cartoonist.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/jan/30/scottish-independence-referendum-question-cartoon?fb=native&commentpage=1

    Its not for the faint hearted. 

      

  3. Bill C says:

    So sorry to go o/t again, but I think this is important.

    “There’s all sorts of controversy about the Scottish Constitution, but what about the rights of Orkney and Shetland within it?  A motion talking about the position of the northern isles in relation to the 1707 Act of Union, and supporting them in exercising their right to self determination of their own future is up for discussion.”
    Is it any wonder that the LibDems are detested almost as much as the Tories in Scotland. You might as well discuss the rights of Castlemilk, Wester Hailles or Torry.  Divide and rule absolutly disgusting!

    The wording in quotes is taken from a supporter of the LibDems website.  My comments follow below. It looks as if  Tavish Scott and co are determined to try and torpedo the democratic process in Scotland. As I said to the LidDems “absolutly disgusting”.    

      

  4. Holebender says:

    Do you think that cartoon was inspired by Mr. Cameron’s muted words in the House of Commons today?

      

  5. Bill C says:

    Sorry, I should have said the motion is to be discussed at the LibDems Spring Conference.

      

  6. Macart says:

    Regardless HB its a pretty damn stupid thing to publish considering the feelings raised by the subject. If he’s trying to be clever about what DC may or may not have said you’d have thought he may have featured in some way. But no its the usual Salmond only image with a fairly straightforward and unsubtle message. If any berserkers clock that…….. well the column may get quite heated. It may be another attempt a la McDougall’s article to do just that.

      

  7. scottish_skier says:

    @ Bill C

    2011 results for Shetland.

    Labour 6.6%
    Tory 3.5%

    I think that’s like the lowest share for the two UK government parties in the whole of Scotland. Shetlanders clearly have heads on their shoulders.

    Tavish is on very, very thin ice. Took a 19% hit in 2011 himself. 

      

  8. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    @Holebender
     
    Why wasn’t it Cameron in the cartoon them? I think we all know the answer to that one. Bell has form on this just as with his Israel cartoons. He’s turning into an old reactionary bigot.
     
    @Bill C
    The scottish lib dems seem intent on committing suicide under the excerable Rennie. The SNP and the Yes campaign should do their utmost to reach out to those real lib dems who won’t be happy with Rennie’s joke leadership and Clegg’s contempt the poor, disabled and unemployed as he votes for the tory cuts on them.
     
     
     

      

  9. Bill C says:

    Rev just ban me, but I really have to sing the praises of Blair Jenkins again. Just watched him on Scotland Tonight make Ruth Davidson look like a wee school lassie, not being sexist, but that’s what she sounded like. Blair outlined what an independnent could look like but emphasised that the choice would be ours, not Westminsters. An outstanding performance.

      

  10. Marcia says:

    Don’t ban Bill C he has good taste.

      

  11. Marcia says:

    Just been asked to take part in an opinion poll (A Reid)

    the questions were:

    As you may know, a referendum will take place in Scotland in the autumn of 2014.

    The referendum question proposed by the Scottish Government reads as follows: “Should Scotland be an independent country?”

    If this referendum were held today, how would you vote?
     
     
     

    Thinking of your own financial position, do you think independence will leave you better off, make no difference, or leave you worse off?
    Please select one response only.
     

    Which one of these political leaders do you trust more? AS or NS , Neither DK
     

    Which party did you vote for in the May 2010 UK General Election?
    Please select one response only.

    Plaid Cymru

    Scottish National Party (SNP)

    Conservative

    Labour

    Liberal Democrats

    Other party

    Did not vote / Undecided / Not eligible to vote
     
    Did you vote in the 2011 Scottish Election? If so who did you vote for in the 2011 Scottish Election .

       

         

      

  12. Baheid says:

    Sorry Rev, but.

    Baby Ruth is clearly pissed off at the end of the interview, Blair getting the last word.

    Now watching Brewer struggling with Blair.  

      

  13. Bill C says:

    @ S_S  – Thanks I know, but they are like midges they just annoy me.

    @ Marcia – My wife would no  doubt agree! 

    Finally from me, just watched the bully Brewer get his comeuppance from a very professional, polished Blair Jenkins.  Blair refused to be intimidated and did not allow Brewer to dominate the interview. All in all, a very good day for Scotland.   

      

  14. M4rkyboy says:

    Was that our very own Doug Daniel getting a mention on Scotland tonight?

      

  15. Doug Daniel says:

    You bet it was!

    Meanwhile, having witnessed Scotland Tonight brilliantly repeating my words of wisdom, Gordon Brewer decided the best use of his time with the leader of the Yes Scotland campaign would be to question him on his personal opinion on bank bonuses.

    Rumour has it Brewer is quite the fan of ambushing guests with entirely different lines of attack from what the guest was told would be the premise of their appearance… 

      

  16. charlie says:

    >This is O/T and you can throw gravy at me later.

    >Check this out from the Guardian’s resident cartoonist.

    >http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/jan/30/scottish-independence-referendum-question-cartoon?fb=native&commentpage=1

    >ts not for the faint hearted.

    I’m ln the Black Country, friends with people from the SWP -Steve Bell’s party as far as I know – the local view  from my friends in  the SWP  is ‘you do in Scotland what you want to do, and we’re happy with that – we’ll keep campaigning for socialiism’.
    They know they’ve no presence in Scotland and I would guess see a possible oppurtunity in the disruption of the London city state.
    I wouldn’t worry that Steve Bell will ever be a friend of Bitter Together

    Cheers
    Charlie

      

  17. Christian Wright says:

    Bill C says:

    ” I really have to sing the praises of Blair Jenkins again. Just watched him on Scotland Tonight make Ruth Davidson look like a wee school lassie, not being sexist, but that’s what she sounded like.”

    I don’t want to put words in your mouth but let me put non-sexist words in your mouth – the description “political ingenue” fits Ms Davidson well. 

    I recall watching her on election night May 2011 when she garnered (as I recall it) 1800 votes as 5th or 4th placed candidate in her very first ever election at any level.

    When the returning officer read her count she gave a derisive self-deprecating roll of the eyes. She later went into the BBC studio to be on the panel awhile for the BBC ceremonial wrist-cutting and wake – hilarious if you were a Nationalist.

    Now, as I divined the figures in the leadership contest, she actually only received 2400 of the votes cast. So the ingenue has only ever run once for public office, receiving a derisory 1800 votes, and a few months later ran for party office, being elected leader with a total vote of ~2400 members endorsing her candidacy.

    That really is quite a story, and it is no wonder she appears a bit out of her depth.  

      

  18. Christian Wright says:

    <Doug Daniel says: “Rumour has it Brewer is quite the fan of ambushing guests with entirely different lines of attack from what the guest was told would be the premise of their appearance…” 

    Since you have the inside-track on Brewer and he’s mentioned you in dispatches, do you know how he gets his hair to do that uppity brier patch thing? 

    Enquiring minds wonder . . .  

      

  19. Dal Riata says:

    That Steve Bell cartoon in the Guardian… bloody hell, words fail me!

    That is one that is going to run and run!

    That offensive, xenophobic tripe has just made a great day for the ‘Yes’ campaign even better!

      

  20. Macart says:

    @ Dal Riata

    Its a pretty clever cartoon, with a couple of jokes and inferences. Basically first one being a case of fill in the blank FUCK or FREE. Salmond offering the pencil to the voter, a quiet dig a the EC question, a nod to the Guardians editorial line in the overstated grossness of the FM. No, the problem with it is first impressions and timing of the release. How many people stop to consider any nuance in a cartoon? They either get the joke/jokes or they don’t. Reading the cartoon at face value its basically ‘Should Scotland go fuck itself?’ Pro and anti readership on CiF don’t need a lot at best of times to kick off. It just stanks to high heaven of a cynical publishing exercise by the Guardian. Stir up a hornets nest and step back.

      

  21. Seasick Dave says:

    On Scotland Tonight, I was surprised to hear Bernard Ponsonby, in discussion with John McCormick, try to push the line that, in the event of a No vote, that it would be business as usual.

      

  22. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Doug Daniel
    Well done that man. I haven’t seen it yet, but sounds like you got through. Maybe we are like midges – annoying for the most part, but there’s always one that manages to get up the nose and deliver a proper sore yin.
    Anyone got a link handy? 

      

  23. Al Ghaf says:

    @Macart

    I am not sure that Steve Bell is as subtle and perceptive as many give him credit to be. Here he is at the Lib Dem conference in 2012 and to me he just comes across as a Labour supporting oaf. Nick Clegg’s hair not having conditioner FFS? His comment of the Lib Dems death spiral being wishful thinking is particularly revealing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dczJMQO4AsQ

    I particularly liked the viewer comment on the YouTube page comparing him to Barry Shitpeas.

    I see Steve’s hostility in the his latest cartoon as a that of a classic party apparatchik. If some of the regular outer-party contributors to Labourhame could draw, I suspect the output would be similar to what we have seen in The Guardian today.

    Barry Steve does not like the SNP because it is not Labour. Similarly independence is not Labour policy, so it must be wrong. He probably does not wonder why ex-and current-Labour voters are flocking to the independence cause, just assumes the support for independence is about Jocks waving flags and watching Braveheart.

    I get the role of a satirist, to lampoon the powerful, but Steve is showing he is not disconnected to party politics himself.

    Perhaps there is some subtlety in his Westminster sketches that I haven’t seen, but what I have seen of his attitude to Scotland, it is the typical metroparochial sneering of Guardian/Labour.

      

  24. Macart says:

    @ Al Ghaf

    See what you mean. Mibbies I gave him more credit than he was due. I was fairly humped at the crassness of the Guardian for the publishing of that cartoon, but Mr Bell looks as though he would have warmed to the task anyhoo. Still, we rip off the image, print up a couple of thousand copies and distribute with a will.

    Every cloud has a silver lining. :)  

    P.S. Thanks for the link. Very informative wee insight.

      

  25. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Seasick Dave – Cheers.

      

  26. Indy_Scot says:

    Was the Steve Bell cartoon in response to Cameron’s F… word in PMQs.

      

  27. Seasick Dave says:

    Indy_Scot

    Whether it was or wasn’t, either way he has chosen to provoke and inflame to show how much he hates Alex Salmond and the SNP.

    Ironically, as has been mentioned many times before, the SNP espouse many of the values that the dear Grauniad professes to hold dear.

    On the upside, he has provided a good source of campaign material :)  

    Vote YES! 

      

  28. Al Ghaf says:

    @Macart

    No worries.

    Just had a look at Steve Bells coverage for The Guardian of the Labour and Conservative conferences.

    The party Steve does not like:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=HdlsLpxd-8o&feature=endscreen

    The party he does like:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=pAIHTe-cgbs&feature=endscreen 

    I must admit I had not seen these before, but there can be no doubt that Steve Bell is a Labour man through and through. Which makes the “Scotland should go and ____ itself,” a rather damming insight to the mindset of a Labour mover and shuggler.

      

  29. Seasick Dave says:

    That’ll be the Respect agenda in action.

    Its like the Scotsman who loved his wife so much he almost told her. 

      

  30. Macart says:

    @ Al Ghaf

    Aye, he doesn’t seem to be a fan of the Con/Libs at all. I know its the job of cartoonists to be controversial and get hammered into the great and the pompous of society, they also follow editorial lines just like anyone in the publishing biz. Still our man here really does pick his subjects to go over the top on. I’m sure as far as he is concerned yesterdays work is job done. About five hundred hits worth of publicity for the boss and a dig at Salmond and the referendum all rolled into one. Where’s the cheque?

      

  31. Cameron B says:

     
    I am not surprised by the degree of insult projected by Steve Bell’s cartoon. After all, the supposedly left-leaning Gruniard appears to be one of the establishments most powerful weapons in managing public perception. For example, they have been probably the loudest cheerleader in support of the War on Terror. Indeed, the Gruniard has consistently supported and promoted military interventions, most recently in Libya, Syria and now Mali.
     
    I managed to have a comment removed from an article related to Syria the other day. I had made several comments that day, including one that accused the Gruniard of publishing false news stories in the support of aggressive wars. As the Nuremberg trials considered this a war crime its self, I called for the Gruniard to be closed down. This was not the post that was removed.
     
    One of the other commentators had suggested that Britain should stop interfering in Syria’s internal politics and let the Syrian people decide their future. Though I agreed with this comment, I suggested the same might apply to Scotland. This was the comment that was removed.  As I had been supportive of the original comment and had not used bad language, I can only assume it was the message itself that the Gruniard found unacceptably.

      

  32. charlie says:

    Steve Bell is very anti-NewLabour or was. I’ve talked to him, pretty much Trotskyite which I think is a point of view. I have no idea why he’s against a social democrat Scotland than an eternal neo-liberal UK. If he’s now against anything  that results in revolution he’s a prat

    ggtth

    charlie

      



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